Losing Your Child's Heart: A Steep Price of Domestic Violence

If you knew something would harm your child, will you do it? What if it was your spousal relationship? Last week Jessica Faught talked about the steep price she had to pay to rebuild her relationship with her daughter; their relationship had been strained by attachment disorder. Today, Osa Samuel Olagunju, licensed counsellor and psychotherapist unveils how domestic violence induces attachment disorders and how if unaddressed, it creates constant parent-child conflict, behavioral disorders and a plethora of other challenges.

If you or anyone you know is in an unhealthy relationship with any type of abuse, and they have children, please share this episode with them. We all have a role to play in keeping our families and children’s future safe. 

About Osa Samuel Olagunju
Osa is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) in the state of New Jersey and a National Certified Counselor (NCC) specializing in Mood Disorders, Anxiety, Women's Issues. For over 15 years, Osa has worked with individuals and groups to address issues like Domestic Abuse, Family Conflict, Grief, Relationship Issues, among others. You can call Osa on (201) 561-7967 or email her to book a free 15 minute consultation.
 

References in this episode

Abducted as a Teen: Jessica’s Journey from Trauma

The startling toll on children who witness domestic violence is just now being understood

The Impact of Witnessing Domestic Violence on Children: A Systematic Review
 

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Music Credit: https://indiefy.me/wanted-carter

Transcript

This is Messy Can't Stop Her. And I am your host, Judith Kambia Obatusa. J-K-O. 

JKO:       Welcome to this episode of Messy Can't Stop Her, the podcast where we share the stories of women's resilience through chaos, crisis and the challenges of life. As part of our conversations from time to time, we'll be bringing experts to share perspectives and deeper insights on some of the issues raised by our guests. In the last episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her, we had Jessica Faught, who was abducted as a teenager from Canada to the United States and held in domestic violence captivity for 15 years until she was able to escape back to Canada. She talked about the mental, psychological and emotional impact of her experience on herself and on her children. One of the things she highlighted was something called attachment disorders. The description that she gave us of how it presents in the parent-child relationship and even in the child's life was so terrifying to me. And I realized that so many people are having those challenges, some challenges with the children because of them having been in the domestic violence relationship that their parents or their caregivers were in. And I felt that we should bring someone who could give us deeper insight about this issue. 

On today's episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her, we have Osa Samuel Olagunju, a licensed professional counselor and psychotherapist for many years. She has given us a lot of information, so much that we're going to be hearing from her over a number of episodes. On today's episode, she'll be dissecting the issue of attachment disorder so that we can understand how it presents and what we can do as parents or people who know people in these situations. In the show notes, I'm going to have a link to Jessica's episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her, and you can go and check it out so that you can hear her story yourself and her description of what she eventually had to do, the painful sacrifice she had to make for her child to have a better life due to the impact of domestic violence on that child's life, which had led to attachment disorder. So let's get into the conversation with Osa Samuel Olagunju. 

Thank you, Osa, for graciously giving us your time and your presence to educate us and empower us to stand against the pandemic that's domestic violence.

Osa:       Judith, I'm really grateful for the opportunity. Thank you for having me. This is one of the things I see in my practice and not just in my practice, in life. Right. Because we know that research, which is conservative, tells us that one out of every four women has experienced abuse, trauma in their relationships. And we know that most people are abused by someone they know, which is intimate partner violence. So when I enter into a room and I'm doing some work in that room, I'm very conscious that if there are eight people in that room, half of them have experienced this kind of trauma in their life. So this is not just something that is happening somewhere. This is a big endemic problem. Right. All over the world. And I call it an insidious, I think other people have used that term, but I really buy into that term that it's an insidious problem because it works under the fabric of most of what we're doing. Right. So we see people getting into problems in public. Right. And oftentimes they say hurt people, hurt people, if you dig a little bit, there is an association with some form of trauma. And oftentimes that trauma is associated with domestic violence. 

JKO:       I recently read something about child abuse, and it says that studies have shown that a child witnessing an abusive situation, like domestic violence, is impacted as if they were being abused, which is why the child welfare system, when they come into a home for whatever reason, and they discover that there is an abusive relationship between mom and dad, between the parents, between the adults, they stay until that relationship either ends or the situation changes or they take the child away because it's equated as abusing the child. However, we're talking about the issue of attachment disorder, which can lead to behavioral challenges, other mental health challenges on the children, and then long term impact. So can you tell us about it? Give us more insight on that. 

Osa:       So it's a complex issue. Before, when we're talking about friends that have a hard time supporting I was struggling to come up with vicarious trauma. Right. Because just from the inside looking in, you can experience that. But a child within the home is actually being abused. Right. There's no direct impact. When a child is in the presence of an abusive situation, the child has been abused. Right. So, for example, this has nothing to do with domestic violence. It has something to do with sexual abuse. So if parents are running around the house naked. Right. That can be sexual abuse. You're not intentionally abusing the child. But it is. But it's more so when maybe one spouse is not the biological parent. Right. That is sexual abuse. Right. They're not doing it to hurt the child. Right. They think they're having fun. But that is sexual abuse. Just the proximity to what's going on is abusive. So no matter how which way we stretch it, being a child, being in a home were there’s abuse, whatever the type, spiritual, mental, physical, whatever type of abuse, there's impact on the child. There are studies that tell us that children that are raised in homes where abuse is present are likely to repeat that behavior. Those behaviors, they're more likely to use substances to cope with their issues. They're more likely to have what people call behavioral problems. And some people have associated this with the attachment theory. Attachment theory is basically talking about when you're a caregiver. Right. When a child's proximity to their caregiver, when a child is raised, their closest caregiver oftentimes is the parents or not, whoever is the assigned caregiver. The attachment the children develop with that person determines what kind of attachment they have. Right. What kind of attachment presentation they have. So if you have parents that are caring, they show appropriate affect. They're loving parents, they're nurturing. The child is likely to develop a secure attachment, meaning when the child like you take them to their first day of school. Right. Some children will cry. The child with secure attachment might cry, but they're easily soothed and they go back because they're trusting that these parents will be there when they say they will be there. Right. A child with a parent who by reason of domestic violence, is not being able to be present for them can develop an insecure attachment, whether it's avoidance, disorganized, resistance or ambivalent. Right. These different disorders present themselves when there is an insecure attachment. By the time my child is six years old, the type of attachment they have is already set. Right. (JKO:Wow.) Yes. So the early years are really important in determining how secure or what kind of attachment a child is going to have. So when a mother, for example, who typically the primary care, give up, the child is not able to be present. Right. Because they're somewhat depressed or just not being able can you imagine someone has just been beaten? Right. And how can you play with your child and be all right? You do what you can to make sure the child is fed, clothed. It's just hard for them. And many mothers do it. Right. Mothers are so resilient, they still dig deep and find ways to support their child. But often an abuser will see that the mother and the child's relationship is beneficial and take it away. Right. Separate the child. And so that process also causes insecure attachments in children. So such a child, you bring them to that first day of school. Some children, because they don't know if the parents here or there will be dismissive of the parents who have not been able to find any attachment, even the kind of attachment needed to be formed with their teacher so they can do well in school, cannot make friends at school. Right. Because they have that insecure attachment from home. Some have disorganized. Right. It's neither here nor there. Disorganized because they don't know when the parent is going to be loving or not loving. They don't know when they are going to be hit or not hit. And so they enter into the world with that kind of disorganized presentation. They have problems with motion regulations. So they're completely deregulated emotionally. Right. They're here, they're there. Nobody knows what's going on. The class is going on. Miss Amy is crying. Why is Amy crying? Nobody knows why she's crying. In the middle of a serious conversation, Amy is laughing. Nobody knows why she's laughing. Emotions are completely disregulated because of that insecure, disorganized attachment that they have with their parents. And so this speaks to how it will keep going on in all relationships that they get after. Then it is goes without saying that there will be behavioral problems in school, difficulty coping with classwork, social issues, all these kinds of things can happen following attachment issues that can be triggered by domestic violence situations. So again, instead of making this about blaming the mother, let us use this like another level of evidence. Right. To speak to mothers about how harmful or parents about how harmful the domestic violence environment can be. Oftentimes if you can convince a mother that something is unsafe for her child, she will do what she needs to do to remove the child from that situation. I need to put in a caveat here that one of the most dangerous places for a woman, a man in a domestic violence situation to be is the place where they are leaving the relationship. So that process must be taken very seriously, very thoughtfully, and the steps taken must be very intentional in keeping everybody safe.

JKO:       My heart just breaks for the many lives that are struggling now because of this. And one thing that the lady who mentioned attachment disorder told me is because of the complexity of it, many times it goes undiagnosed. So the kids are diagnosed for every other thing, but the real thing. And people don't know what to do. They don't know how to take care of it. 

Osa:       It's not necessarily a diagnosis. Okay. Right. So you won't find attachment disorder something we diagnosed, but it's a presentation that can result in behavioral problems. So we see children with behavior we know we can deduce by the evidence that they're giving us that it’s due to attachment disorder issues. I guess that's why people don't go around saying, I have an attachment disorder diagnosis. Right. And it's a manageable situation. Right. Manageable situation. 

JKO:       Can you just tell us about the types? You mentioned them and you described two of the types of attachment disorder. 

Osa:       So there's four, secure one and there are three insecure types. Yeah. So the avoidance one does not seek the mother when she returns. So if the mother goes away, like I was talking about school or the parents go away, they don't seek the parent when they return. They just focus on their environment because they learn not to trust that the parent will be there. And so this presents and they tend to cut themselves off emotionally. So I was saying in school that they don't really develop the sort of attachment necessary to foster healthy relationships and foster healthy learning environment for themselves. They're not trusting people, relationships because obviously the one that the primary care was not a trusting relationship, the ambivalent or resistance one is the child can be very upset when the parents leave, and they are very inconsolable. And so that's how it presents in children. They're preoccupied with fear. They can be very clingy. And so as you know, it presents problems when they want to develop their own relationships. People are very wary of people that they feel will be clingy. They don't want to be burned out by relationships and things like that. All of us have our own sort of tendencies where attachment is concerned. And so when you match your friends that have like avoidance. So you know how that relationship is going to be a little kid in the playground, right. So we need a lot of secure people. But the good news about this, it's not like it's a death sentence. And again, it's not your fault. You are too young to figure out what kind of attachment you are going to present as things that it's just really to be aware of the way you present in relationships and manage it. So if I find myself being very clingy all the time, I realize it's probably due to an attachment type that I have. I become more aware of it, mitigate against it, remind myself that not everybody is going to leave me. I don't have to claim to everybody, build on the evidence that the people I care about and I want to save my life, stay. And even when they say it doesn't have anything to do with me. Right. So those kinds of things I say this to say I don't want anybody to be stuck on the kind of attachment type that they are. Right. Just be aware of what your tendencies are and sort of manage them. Be aware of how your children are presented, the different ways, the different behavioral cues, and like cognitive behavioral therapy that are being utilized to help children manage better their attachment type presentations, even in relationships today.

JKO:       Okay. So just as we end this conversation, as we end the conversation, can you just give us your last thoughts? 

Osa:       Okay. I want everybody to know out there that domestic violence and intimate partner violence is everybody's problem. Everybody has to have their hands on deck. How are you raising your sons? How are you raising your daughters? How are you looking out for your neighbor? How are you in your relationship that everybody seems healthy? Are there things, little things that you do that you could address to make sure that your children and those that look up to you are not getting the cues, that it's okay to be mildly abusive because some people can take it further than you're taking it. Look inward first, and then let's look outward. Let's be our brothers keeper. In our case, our sister's keeper. This is everyone's business. We all need to get all hands on deck to ensure that we keep each other safe. Because whether you like it or not. Right. If your neighbor is suffering domestic violence and you have children in the community, it's affecting your children. Your children come home and they're affected by that. And so that's just one small way. I know going to the grocery store, I'm not seeing that lady that smiles at me. I don't know her name, but the lady that always smiles at me at the till, I'm finding out that she's a victim of domestic. Well, that impacts me and impacts the entire environment. And so let all of us think deeply, let's look inward and see what we can do and how we can address it. We talked earlier on about how friends and family can be supportive and how they can become overwhelmed because this is very difficult situation. And so it's important to access resources like therapy. A lot of community mental health places will find ways of providing this service for free. There's actually a lot of services. Even if you go to your local police station, often they can give you resources that the person being abused can utilize and get some kind of therapy. There are even things like people being financially abused. There's resources to help them figure that out. So there's a lot of resources out there. Please connect to those resources. Therapists are trained to support people in this situation so that your friends are not overwhelmed. Right? They are not burned out because it's very hard to want to support someone and you don't know how. So sometimes people pull back because they don't know how. They don't want to make things worse. So let's go to people who know how and who can help us help our friends, help us help our friends. So I know often when I'm doing grief therapy, I often tell people these are the list of things or these are some of the things you can tell your friends that they can do to support you, because often people don't go to their bereaved friends because what am I going to say when I get there? And so they pull away. So if you can have cues and tips to give those people that want to support you on how best to support you, that will be helpful in building your own community to help you get through this situation. And the way to start that oftentimes is to access mental health services so that they can provide you the resources, the tools, the psycho education that can be helpful to yourself. And those are around you. So I know I often ask if you want somebody who is supportive to come into therapy with you, I will often do a supportive to help the people around them, their friend who wants to be helpful but doesn't know how just to talk them through that process so that as a community, we're helping each other to help one another. We don't know how. We were not raised. Your mother didn't raise you, my parents didn't raise me to say when that person is abused, he's been abused. This is how you know. And this is what you do, right? So let us not guilt each other, but let's teach each other. Let's be Proactive and intentional in learning how to support each other and get there. 

JKO:       Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time here and in the show notes I will put Osa's bio. I also put links to her services if you're interested, you get in touch with her and she can support you if you're in that place where you will benefit either yourself as a mom or as a parent from her services. Thank you so much also for being with us today. We really appreciate the time you've given us and we're looking forward to seeing you again, who knows when.

Osa:       Thank you for having me, Judith, I hope I've made some sense today. If you didn't get anything, just know that you're loved, it's not your fault and there's a way forward. 

JKO:       Thank you so much Osa. Like Osa said, we all play a role in the matter of domestic violence. We all play a role in creating awareness about it and preventing it. We all play a role in protecting our children from the impact of domestic violence. So I'd like to beg you if you're listening to this episode to please share it with as many people as you know because when I heard attachment disorder and Jessica Faught shared the impact in her life and the very expensive sacrifice that she had to make so that her daughter could have a good life, I realized how much damage we do to these innocent babies that we are blessed with. And I want to beg everyone who is listening to this episode, to please share it far and wide. Share it to anyone whether you know that they are going through domestic violence, or they are not. Whether male, whether female, whether mothers, whether fathers, even uncles share it so that the more people know the impacts, the more we can all work together to put an end to it. And like I always say, when we do this, Messy Can’t Stop Us. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her. See you next time.